Do you have any idea, sir, on the basis of your past experience, how many you convert out of an audience?
Well, if I convert any, they won't be real conversions. The Lord has to do the converting. The records of the true converts, I believe, are kept in heaven. No one will know the answer to your question until we stand before God on the judgment day.
How do you follow the converts who make decisions for Ghrist at each meeting?
This is an involved process that begins before the opening of a Crusade. During the meetings contact is made with the churches of their preference, Bible study groups are formed, and Bible study courses are sent to each one of these people. We even follow up the pastor to see if the pastor follows up!
How lasting and permanent are these decisions for Christ?
In some cases they are not lasting at all. In other cases they are absolutely permanent. In every single country of Africa and South America that we have visited, I have met people who got their start in an encounter with Christ at one of these Crusades and are now serving him as missionaries or social workers or medical people.
We believe that this is the work of God, and that in each city we come to, there are people whose hearts are already prepared by the Spirit of God. They make a profession of faith and it lasts because God does it. This happened to me.
What do you think the challenge of Christianity is to college students?
Statistics indicate that out of all the people who come to the Crusades, the greatest percentage are 19 to 25 years old. That is the age of life commitment. Vocation, marriage, and philosophy of life are being decided.
Young people today are searching for answers. We have found our greatest response in America to be on the campus. Students say, "We don't know what to believe. We have had so much thrown at us, we don't know what to make of it." So they come and fill the auditoriums, and they talk and discuss. This is a tremendous opportunity to present the claims of Christ.
Exactly where do you think Christianity differs from other challenges to university students?
Jesus Christ made the astounding claim that he was God. Either Christ was God, or he was a blasphemous liar or a maniac. No other religious leaders claimed to be God. Christ is the only one, too, of whom the Scriptures state that he was raised from the dead.
Not only that, Christ offers power to live the Christian life. No other religion makes such an offer. There are good ethics, wonderful ethics, in Buddhism and Islam, but Christ is the only one who gives the spiritual power I am talking about.
Do you think your Africa Crusade had any effect on the people of that continent with relation to freedom?
We have had letters from African leaders to that effect. But it must be remembered that 85 per cent of all education in Africa south of the Sahara has been done by Christian missions. The great national upsurge in Africa is a result of the teaching of the Gospel of Christ.
One of the problems of Christianity in Africa is that it has not always identified itself successfully with the African, but rather too much at times with colonialism. When I went to Africa in 1960 I tried to emphasize that Christ belonged to Africa. He was not a Westerner. He was born and reared in a part .of the world that touched Asia, Africa, and Europe, and when he was a little boy his mother took him to Africa. When he was on the way to the cross, an African helped him to carry that cross. When I said this, I could see the faces of the people light up.
What is your opinion of those who, like the woman in New Orleans recently, try to show that segregation is based on the Bible?
I have examined every passage in the Bible that they say refers to the subject of race and used to substantiate their view, and I just do not believe it. hi fact, I would say that the Bible teaches the opposite.
I think it is very evident that Moses had an Ethiopian wife whose skin was dark. I don't think that Christ's skin was as light as mine, or perhaps as dark as the West African's. He was born in a part of the world where his skin was probably more of a brown or swarthy color.
To base racial segregation on the Bible I think is ridiculous. Of course you can make the Bible prove anything. You can twist the Scripture all around and take verses and chapters out of context, but the Bible teaches that we are rightly to divide the Word of truth, and that we are to do it with spiritual discernment. I just cannot find anything to substantiate racial barriers and differences in the Bible. I think they have to go elsewhere for that.
Dr. Graham, which nations of the world need your services the most?
Well, first of all, I don't put myself up as a prophet or someone whom a nation "needs." I would say all the nations need the preaching of the Gospel. I am an evangelist. The word evangelist comes from the Greek word "keryx" which means "pro-claimer." I am a proclaimer of the message of the Bible. I am not preaching some new idea, some new philosophy, or something I have thought up. I am simply preaching the Bible, the same old truths that the church has believed for centuries.
I think personally that the international situation is deteriorating. Look at any part of the world today and you will see that we are in trouble. I don't think anyone can possibly realize the tragedy of the loss of Laos; the infiltration into Thailand and South Viet Nam will be massive. The penetration of forces of unrest is very deep in South America. Or look at Europe, or elsewhere, and you will find we are in a very critical period.
But I believe that if this nation of ours would turn to God in prayer and in faith, and would live the Christian life, God would hear from heaven. There is no telling how greatly this nation could lead the world if we were living the way God would have us to live.
Would it help if Communist leaders turned to God?
That is my daily prayer.
What do you think should be the application of the Gospel to the peace of the world?
I don't think we will have permanent peace in the world as long as man's heart stays as it is—as long as there is hate and jealousy and greed and lust. You cannot have peace when man's heart is not at peace.
As long as there is one man in the world who hates another man because of the color of his skin or the shape of his nose or for some other reason, you have the possibility of war- As long as you have men in the world greedy for power, there is potential conflict.
I believe that the Gospel of Christ is the only power in the world that can transform the heart of man and make it love instead of hate. But will the whole world come to Christ? The Bible teaches otherwise, in my opinion.
I believe the Bible teaches that the only permanent hope for peace lies in Christ's return. I believe he is coming literally and bodily to set up his reign, and that this is the hope for peace. I don't know when he is coming, but that prayer Christ prayed—"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done," is going to be answered. As I see it, the world is not going to be destroyed by a hydrogen bomb war. God has other plans for the human race. The world is going to be renovated, evil will be vanquished, the Kingdom of God will triumph,- and Christ is going to reign.
If I didn't believe that I would be of all men most miserable.
Do you think then that the United Nations and the disarmament negotiators are failures?
The Bible teaches that we are always to work for peace and to pray for peace. We are to do everything we can. I support the United Nations and I certainly support the disarmament conference. But it, like all other conferences in history, in my opinion, will ultimately fail. There are sincere, good men desperately trying. We are to support them and we are to pray for them. They may help bring about an era of peace, maybe 25, 50 or 100 years of peace. But the ultimate end is going to be failure. The only hope for enduring peace is Jesus Christ.
What is your opinion of the astronauts?
I think the astronauts are setting a tremendous example for the United States. I think their clean living, their moral strength, their faithfulness in going to church, their humility, and the statements they have been making, are to be commended. Here are the finest of America's young men. I use them as examples in my preaching, and hold them up to young people and say, "Be like John Glenn!" I think the Space Agency is to be commended, too, for choosing this caliber of man.
Would you comment on the so-called Christian crusade against Communism?I am not a member of, nor am I identified in any way with any of the so-called "right wing- organizations—or "left wing" either. I do not believe that God has called me to deviate from the preaching of the Gospel to enter the political situation. I believe that the Gospel has its own power, and I intend to stay with the Gospel.
However, I believe that Christians are to have social concern and that every Christian should be interested in the moral and spiritual betterment of his community.
What seems to be your strongest opposition?
When we come to a large city, all the controversies within the church are brought into focus by the Crusade. The tension is not in us, it is already there. There are those who for one reason or another feel they cannot support the meetings. I never answer them, I never mention them, I never attack them. I respect their point of view, but we go on preaching the Gospel.
But I think a spirit of hostility is wrong. I believe that we should love. Regarding those who criticize me from all points, I have asked God a thousand times, "Lord, give me love for them." I don't believe I can preach with liberty unless God has given me this love and this matter is crucified in me, until I can say with all my heart that I do love them and could sit down and talk with them, eat with them, fellowship with them and pray with them—anything!
I asked that question because it has come from certain evangelical leaders that perhaps the mingling of all the churches represents a compromise.
But you see Christ said, "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." This affects the church, it affects race, it affects all sorts of areas of life.
I don't believe that we should cut ourselves off from people with whom we disagree. I think we ought to talk to them, try to understand their point of view and let them understand our point of view. I don't think the church ought to have this terrible division in which we don't even speak to each other. I went to the World Council of Churches in New Delhi and I went to the National Association of Evangelicals in Denver. I go to all these different groups because I believe that the church is bigger than any one little group. God has his people in many places, and I think we are going to be surprised when we get to heaven to find out who is there and who is not there.
Do you have any idea how many persons attend your services?
No, sir. I do not. I am very happy when people come in large numbers, but I have also conditioned myself to preaching to many empty seats. God often does his greatest work when the audience is small. Christ spent at least half his time with just a handful of people and preached his greatest sermon to one person.
Has your attitude toward the presentation of the Gospel changed in the years you have been evangelizing?
Yes, I think there has been a change. I have not changed the basic things I started with. I believe more than ever that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. My conviction about the heart of the Gospel—which I take to be the cross where Christ died for our sins, his resurrection, the need for repentance and faith—is deeper now than when I began.
But when it comes to the scope of the church and our social responsibility, I am certain that there has been growth and maturity. I hope there has. I thought when I started 12 years ago that we could turn the world upside down; that the whole world would turn to God. I am not quite that naive now. Sin is a little blacker than I thought it was; and I am no longer taken in by statistics. They don't tell the story.
What would you say are the essentials of effective evangelism? In other words, why do you seem to be more successful than others?
I just don't know that answer at all. I believe in the sovereignty of God. God chooses his servants. I believe that God chose me for this particular task at this moment, but whether it is more successful than the work of others whom you have never heard of, I doubt. I think the most successful people are probably individuals whom we will never hear about until we get to heaven.