Willow Creek Community Church, near Chicago, Illinois, is an inter denominational community of faith.
Each year thousands of church members from hundreds of churches visit Willow Creek in search of answers and inspiration.
Here, Andy Nash talks with two of Willow Creek's teaching pastors, Mark Mittelberg and Lee Strobel, about Willow Creek as a local church and as a burgeoning influence on churches everywhere.
Andy Nash: Your mission is to turn irreligious people into fully devoted followers of Christ. What's the best way to do that?
Lee Strobel: It takes a variety of approaches to reach irreligious people. Willow Creek's approach is one of them. Other churches use different approaches that are equally valid. But I think we have to be relevant, we have to defend the truth of Christianity, and we have to show its pertinence to life in our day and time. We've got to answer the questions that searching people are asking. We need to build authentic relationships with them so that we may share our faith in the context of an honest, no-strings-attached friendship. We need to create an environment where seekers can come and investigate Christianity at their own pace as God begins to draw them to Himself.
Mark Mittelberg: That term "turn irreligious people." Ultimately, the Holy Spirit has to do that. We're very clear on that. What we're trying to do is to cooperate with what God's Spirit is all about.
AN: You offer seeker services on the weekend and believer services during the week. Is it smart for a church to offer two distinct types of services, rather than simply making believer services seeker-sensitive?
LS: We separate into two venues be cause many seekers cannot worship a God that they do not know and cannot sing lyrics that aren't true to their heart.
On the other hand, there are some excellent churches that have taken a more seeker-sensitive worship approach and have created a worship experience that nonbelievers can find very helpful in their spiritual journeys. What I would caution very strongly against, however, is just making a few cosmetic adjustments to a worship service and considering that to be seeker-friendly.
The best way to really create a service that's seeker-friendly is for the leadership of that church, each one of them, to build authentic relationships with unchurched people to spend time with them, to get to know them, to care about them, to have them over to their home, to go bowling together, and then ask themselves the question, "Now what do I need to do to create a place for my friend Harry or Mary?"
AN: Suddenly you care a lot more.
MM: Exactly. It sensitizes you.
AN: You've decided to meet culture through contemporary mediums like drama, video, and upbeat music. Do you ever revisit this decision in your own mind?
LS: We're always monitoring what we do in our services---the teaching, the dramatic elements, the music to make sure that we're staying true to the gospel and to our responsibility as Christians.
When I came to this church as an atheist, I heard music in a style that I could understand and relate to. And in that setting, almost without being conscious of it, the Christian lyrics began to speak to me. The next morning I was in the shower singing these Christian songs. I would stop and say, "Why am I singing that? I don't believe those lyrics." But the lyrics ricocheted around in my soul all week long. They began to till the soil of my soul until the gospel seed could germinate in me and grow.
Can you go too far in the way you use music or drama or multimedia? Yes, you can. However, God created the arts, and we as Christians have surrendered the arts to the world, and we need to reclaim them.
AN: When you hear Barna's research about the "cyber-church" and how it's going to be the church of the next century, does that worry you?
MM: It would worry me if people re ally substituted the Internet for in-person relationships. There's never going to be a replacement for getting real people in a real room somewhere to pray and worship and learn together.
AN: Willow Creek calls itself an inter denominational church. What does that mean? Is it Protestant?
LS: Yes, it's Protestant. I think there's a significant nuance of meaning between a church that sees itself as nondenominational versus one that describes itself as interdenominational. Some nondenominational churches imply that they don't believe in the legitimacy of denominations. We're not challenging that legitimacy; we're just saying that we're going to be interdenominational.
We hold very close to the core teachings of Jesus in the gospel who we are before God, our sinfulness, our need for a Savior, our need to follow Christ fully which is kind of the common denominator within Protestant denominations. However, on some less central issues, on which there are legitimate differences of opinion among Christians such as how exactly to interpret the endtime we hold things a little more loosely. We emphasize the core of what Christianity is and allow people to form their own conclusions based on Scripture.
AN: You've both been at this church for eleven years. How long do you plan to stay, and do you think it's healthy for a pastor to stay long at one church?
MM: Unless God leads otherwise, I want to be involved in this local fellowship all my life. I see huge value in ministers staying long-term in one place. In this way deep relationships are built and trust grows.
LS: You look at the churches that are thriving, and many of those are pastored by people who have been there long periods of time.
AN: What would you say to those who think Willow Creek preaches a soft gospel?
MM: They need to see for themselves what we're really doing.
LS: There's a big misperception that if you're going to communicate to spiritual seekers, you've got to water it down. That's false. If a person comes into the church, he or she wants to know what the difference is between this church and the rotary club down the street. They both seem to do good things. If we don't stand up and clearly defend Christianity and challenge people with the truth of it with a sense of urgency they won't see the need to stick around.
AN: Willow Creek's biggest channel of impact on other churches is its half-dozen annual leadership conferences and summits. What goes on at these conferences, and what do you hope attendees will take away?
MM: We hope that people will come and have a renewed vision of what the Christian church is all about and the impact it can have on the contemporary world. Many times people will come with a very pragmatic attitude "I'm going to fill a notebook with lots of clever ideas." But what often happens is, people get their notebook out for the first session and 15 minutes into it, they close the notebook and begin to worship God.
AN: Is the contemporary worship for mat a "must," from your standpoint?
LS: No. Some people will only be reached in a more traditional setting. I have friends who have come to Christ through a very liturgical church, and I celebrate that!
MM: In 1 Corinthians 9, Paul says, "I have become all things to all men ... for the sake of the gospel" (verses 22,23,NIV).What he's saying is this: "I'll never change the gospel in any way, but I will figure out what it takes to relate to people so that they will open their souls to the gospel."
So let's say I'm going to start a church among the retirement community of Sarasota, Florida. The most seeker-sensitive thing in the world might be to get a really big organ and do traditional hymns. Doing Willow Creek-style music in that retirement community would not be seeker-sensitive. It would be seeker-insensitive.
LS: The methodology grows out of the great desire to reach friends and neighbors for Christ. Willow Creek holds one seminal value as a priority: that lost people matter to God. Had this not been so strongly taught, modeled, encouraged, and nurtured here over the years, Willow Creek would shrivel and die.
AN: Adventists consistently make up one of the largest groups at your conferences. What do you think attracts Adventists and others to Willow Creek?
MM: The Adventists we meet at these conferences are often some of the most "heart-after-God" people, wanting deeply to do whatever it takes to serve God and build up the church. When they see what's happening here to reach more and more people, I think there's just a natural affinity that emerges between hearts that are warm for God.
LS: The kind of people we see corning here are very often folk who love God deeply, who mourn the fact that the local church in many cases seems to be anemic in influencing the community, and who have a great desire to see prevailing churches built and communicating the gospel unflinchingly but relevantly to new people. They come in here because their hearts beat for God and for the church, and they want to see if there are any ideas or teachings that might be helpful.
Personally, I learn as much from other churches as they learn from us.
AN: What have you learned from Adventists?
LS: Some of the most heartfelt Christians I've ever encountered have been Adventists. If I could identify one trait among the Adventists I've met, it would be love. I walk away saying, "I want to be more loving like that person." That isn't true of all Adventists I've met, but it's true of many of them.
AN: While many Adventist pastors and lay leaders have successfully implemented Willow Creek methods into their local church, several in the past couple years have split with the denomination. Among other things, they began sending less money to the church organization and downplaying the Adventist name and distinctive beliefs. Any comment?
MM: First of all, we do not encourage churches along those lines. Whenever a church can stay within the denominational structure and flourish, that's best. Not only do they have their built-in benefits and relationships there, but in many cases they can be a shining example within their whole group of a church that's becoming more effective in reaching people and growing them in the faith. We love to be able to point to churches and say, "Here's a United Methodist church, here's a Southern Baptist church, here's a Seventh-day Adventist church. Look at the ministry they are doing. Look at how God is blessing them. Look at the people coming to church." Then when other Adventists call, we'll point to that ex ample.
AN: What counsel would you give to a church member who goes to Willow Creek, finds a passion for ministry and for lost people, and then returns home and feels thwarted by tradition and other members who oppose change?
MM: We actually do give advice. In the Saturday morning session of our church leadership conference, Jim Mellado (Willow Creek Association President) gives a talk entitled "Changing Your Church With out Blowing It Up." The whole presentation is about a patient, loving, biblical change process where the theme is to build biblical values into people, into their hearts, by modeling it, teaching it, patiently discipling people, helping them to see that we're not trying to do a Willow Creek thing, we're not even trying to be contemporary. What we're trying to do is be biblical and apply God's heart to our situation.
We try to help leaders to be patient, to understand that change is hard and that it creates chaos in people's lives. There's a middle ground between trying to change people overnight and saying "Well, the status quo is ok."
