Shepherdess: Ministers and their wives

At a mental health institute sponsored by Harding Hospital and Andrews University, Norma Jean Sahlin, a pastor's wife from Allentown, Pennsylvania, spent a few minutes talking with Dr. Charles E. Wittschiebe about ministers, their wives, and children. For many years Dr. Wittschiebe taught at the Andrews University Theological Seminary. Now retired, he maintains a small counseling practice. He is the author of God Invented Sex.

Sahlin: You have stated that ministers' wives should be women first and ministers' wives second. What do you mean?

Wittschiebe: A young woman often gets a picture in her mind of what a minister's wife is to be, a kind of stereo type, an almost plastic image. If she works hard to become that kind of woman, she may lose some of her humanity, her naturalness, her spontaneity. She should first be herself, in love with God and her husband, expressing this warmly and with depth of feeling. Then it will be easy for her to acquire the loving qualities of a minister's wife in relation to people.

Sahlin: Could you explain a little more?

Wittschiebe: If a minister goes up to his wife at the kitchen sink and fondles her, he doesn't say to her, "Oh, I am so happy to be with my favorite church worker!" or "Oh, I am so happy to be with my shepherdess!" He teases her as a woman, making her feel that she is desirable. She may say, "Oh, stop that," but she doesn't mean it.

One of the most outstanding ministers in the denomination told me, "You know what I do sometimes, Charlie? I call my wife from the office and ask, 'Is your husband home?' She says, 'No.' So I say, 'I'll be right over!'" I like the teasing element of that. The same conversation could be very objectionable in a different context, but he is using it in a very delightful way. This is what I mean about keeping this quality of aliveness in a relationship between a man and a woman.

Sahlin: For pastors' families, there is a stereotype of the "starchy" minister and his wife. One has to play the role of being "proper," and it seeps into one's love life.

Wittschiebe: "Starchy" is an appropriate word. But what you are talking about is also an almost prudish, sweet, "yukky" image—no warmth, no depth, no passion, no aliveness.

Sahlin: So it's OK to flirt with one's spouse?

Wittschiebe: I think it is necessary. I get the feeling from the Song of Solomon that these two weren't greeting each other with "Oh, you're here now." She goes to the door, her hands dripping with myrrh, and she's all set to have a very warm time with him.

Sahlin: Let's get back to the minister's wife being herself. Does that include her having her own career, apart from her husband's ministry?  

Wittschiebe: This is an area that we, as a denomination, haven't explored enough or defined very well. We used to have a tradition that a minister's wife stayed home, brought up the children, was a model in the community, and always had extra time to help people because she wasn't working. Today, many ministers' wives do work outside the home. They are secretaries, dietitians, and nurses. If we believe that a minister's wife may work without hindering her husband's work, then certainly a woman has every right to find fulfillment in a career.

Sahlin: In your counseling, have you come across "church widows," women whose husbands feel it is more important to spread the gospel than to stay at home and tend a marriage?

Wittschiebe: The minister's wife often tends to be a "church widow" and the children "orphans." Sometimes men are active in church work because they would rather do that than be at home. This gives them a pious excuse to be away. I mean, if a fellow helps every night with an evangelistic effort, he's a big man. Every one says, "My, isn't Brother Jones wonderful!" But he may be doing what he does because he doesn't want to be at home. He may not have much fun with his wife. So he gets a pretext to stay away.

Sahlin: It is rather hard to carry on a family argument about time spent with the family when the husband/father is always saying, "I am saving souls."  

Wittschiebe: It's hard to fight God, so the man is pious. Another example of this is the woman who says she cannot have sex any more than once every two months because her husband is irreligious and doesn't enter into the marriage relation ship with pure and holy motives. He gets very angry. Those aren't fair odds at all, you know. It's tough enough to fight a person or an idea, but to put yourself in opposition to God? That's blasphemous and sacrilegious, and who wants to do that?

Sahlin: That looks insurmountable. How do you help a couple deal with such an issue?

Wittschiebe: I point out that religion is being used in such cases as a screen, an evasion, as a tactic to put the other person down. I get at the emotions that lead to this kind of attack, open them up, and get the pus out, so to speak. You have to get down to why a person is acting this way.

Sahlin: What about marriage counseling for ministers and their wives? When a couple recognize that there is a problem in their marriage they cannot handle, what should they do?  

Wittschiebe: We have gone too long on the assumption that a minister is above other men, that he is above these human weaknesses, that he is a model and example. Actually, he is a man with weaknesses and foibles and brings into his marriage all the problems of his youth. Suppose a minister had a poor relationship with his mother or his father and is mixed up emotionally. He brings this all into his marriage and is not able to express love and/or anger as he should. Or suppose the wife has had a horrible idea of what sex is supposed to be, and she brings that into her marriage. They certainly need some counsel. He will become a better healer of souls as he himself becomes healed. I counsel a number of ministers and their wives— confidentially, of course. It helps these couples because it gives them strength. It doesn't mean that I am wonderful. It means that they get to share with me, an older minister, to get some counsel. They get it out of their systems, feel better, and then go out to minister to others. We can't assume that all ministers or their wives are in perfect emotional health, because they're not. The marriage suffers to that degree. A man may have, as we said earlier, a compulsive need to do everything for the Lord and never stay at home. This is a good thing in one way, but too much of a good thing. His wife becomes resentful of him because it takes all his time. She resents the women that call him up. His children resent the fact that they don't have a father. And the first thing you know, after fifteen years we have a messed-up home; maybe the wife even gets involved with another man. This does happen. It could have been taken care of by counseling a long time back.

Sahlin: How does one find a counselor?

Wittschiebe: Unfortunately, in our church we don't have enough qualified counselors that our ministers can turn to, because until recently we have made psychology a bad word. What we forget is that psychology, the study of the mind and emotions, is good in its place. The Scriptures are loaded with psychological principles.

Sahlin: You have spent a great deal of time teaching ministers to be counselors. If a wife were interested and received the training, do you think it would be beneficial to have a husband-wife counseling team?

Wittschiebe: I don't particularly care about a counseling team myself. I think it is better to have both equipped to do it; then the wife can counsel with women and, occasionally, a man. Sometimes they might work together as a team, but I don't think it is necessary.

I know there are a number of women who love people and would make wonderful counselors if they were given training on basic ideas, techniques, and so forth. The minister could often refer women counselees to them. A little bit of knowledge of the mind and the personality would be a great help. We're wasting women terribly! They make great counselors. Many do a fine job without any training. They know how to listen and care.

Sahlin: What do you think the role of the minister is in the rearing of his children?

Wittschiebe: You know the answer to that! I'll answer it, though. He has full responsibility to be a father to his children. I think that a man should protect time each week to be with his family. He should write it down in his appointment book. It isn't so much the quantity of time as the quality of time. If the minister is home reading a book while his boy is playing on the floor, they're together but not really together. However, if they are both downstairs working on a model railroad, that's big togetherness! Some men do cop out on this, leaving the mother to be both father and mother. That's not fair to the woman or the child.

Sahlin: Since our ministers and their families are regarded as examples, how can a family cope with the burden of being more perfect than any other family?  

Wittschiebe: I think that we ought not to strive for that. When a goal like that is created, one becomes tense and artificial. I think ministers' families should be them selves, recognize that they're going to make mistakes and pull some boners, and the people will love them anyway. The children are not perfect. Don't let the church spoil the kids, and then blame them. Don't drag a child to two churches in one day. We need to give our children the same growing climate that other children have and not be too self-conscious. We're going to make a lot of mistakes "as parents, but if we love our children, they will overlook them. The Chinese have a proverb: "If you spank your child by mistake, don't worry; he knows a reason." I find that children are quite fair.

A minister must first be a parent, then a minister. It's the same idea as what I said about being a minister's wife. If one starts with being a minister first and a parent second, that's the wrong end of the stick!

Sahlin: A minister's wife will say, "My husband finds it easy to listen to all kinds of other people. Well, maybe he doesn't find it easy, but he does it. But when he gets home, he's too tired to listen to me. He wants to relax, to do something else besides listen to me." How can we cope with that?  

Wittschiebe: To begin with, we have to make some allowance for that, because a man really can get drained. He's just like a doctor who's been operating all day; he isn't ready to do another operation. The woman ought to understand that he's tired. Suppose she says, "Honey, you're drained, but could you take five minutes to discuss something with me? I don't want to wear you out." I think that with an approach like that, he'd say, "Yeah, I think I can." Whereas if she starts hammering at him, and he sees a half-hour or an hour ahead of him (because that's the way she usually does it), then he may say, "Shut up and leave me alone." She should remember him when making her request. After all, she is his medicine. A minister's wife is marvelous medicine. She fills in all the sore spots and covers them.